Comments Locked

43 Comments

Back to Article

  • Hrel - Saturday, August 22, 2009 - link

    You showed Nvidia stats on the first page... I guess you didn't include them cause ATI and Intel can't even compare???

    Next time include the Nvidia results... would've thought that it'd an impulsory action; guess not.
  • crochat - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - link

    Gary,

    You mentioned a motherboard roundup in your conclusion. I thought it would come sooner.

    Regards
  • AlB80 - Sunday, August 16, 2009 - link

    1. The A-Link Express II is a proprietary interface developed by AMD basing on the PCI Express Gen2 version 2.0 technology, with additional Northbridge-Southbridge messaging functionalities.
    2. High data transfer bandwidth (up to 2.5 Gb/s / Lane)
  • Concillian - Saturday, August 15, 2009 - link

    "Remember when ATI made crappy chipsets that no one bought, and all AMD systems were built with NVIDIA or even VIA chipsets? "

    Yeah, I remember that, thats when they were really AMD chipsets and not ATi chipsets with an AMD label on them. ATi started making good Crossfire chipsets shortly before AMD bought them.

    I like AMD as much as the next guy, but let's not be patting them on the back too hard. They tried, failed, then did what any good American businessman would do... bought a struggling competitor to use their IP.
  • IntelUser2000 - Saturday, August 8, 2009 - link

    Gary, you got the clock speed of the G41 IGP wrong:

    http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=543&...">http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=543&...

    G41 and G43 uses a 667MHz core while G45 uses 800MHz.

    Notice the differences here: http://global.hkepc.com/1525/page/3#view">http://global.hkepc.com/1525/page/3#view
  • ClagMaster - Saturday, August 8, 2009 - link

    The 785G is just a 780G which has recieved a fine tuning. Which is OK. There are slight improvements in performance over the 780G but nothing to be excited about. 785G Seems to work well with DDR3 memory and Athlon II processors.

    I have an ASUS M3A78EM 780G Mobo with an AMD BE2400 X2 CPU I use as a secondary computer I keep off-line for private matters. It's a fairly powerful rig for the media applications I run.

    The HD 3200 GPU is just as powerful as a Geforce 4200 graphics card. I can play DX8 and DX9 games from the 2002-2004 period (Max Payne, Aquanox, Homeworld2) with acceptable framerates at 1280 x 1024 resolution. I run Windows XP Home.

    The 785G is not bad. But if I had a choice between a 785G mobo and a 780G mobo with the 780G costing $5-$10 less, I would buy the 780G mobo. I can still run Windows 7 with the 780G with the HD3200.


  • ClagMaster - Saturday, August 8, 2009 - link

    BTW-

    This article was not boring. It honestly compared the performance capabilities of the 785G to other chipsets of its class (780G and G41).

    Most differences between the 785G and 780G were small and within the combined statistical uncertainty of the benchmark measurements measurements +/-10% (i.e. statistically insignificant). Not very surprising. Most of the larger differences observed were between systems with DDR2-1066 and DDR3-1333 memory systems.

    I agree the 785G is a better balanced chipset than the 780G and G41 for multimedia.

    I wish Gary would have used an older benchmarking suite so I can compare the performance between current and systems 2-3 years old. I prefer PCMark2005 and 3DMark2005 since these are reliable indicators of performance. This is important to me because I try to make my purchasing decisions on the criteria of having double the performance for the same cost and power consumption.
  • ClagMaster - Saturday, August 8, 2009 - link

    BTW-

    This article was not boring. It honestly compared the performance capabilities of the 785G to other chipsets of its class (780G and G41).

    Most differences between the 785G and 780G were small and within the combined statistical uncertainty of the benchmark measurements measurements +/-10% (i.e. statistically insignificant). Not very surprising. Most of the larger differences observed were between systems with DDR2-1066 and DDR3-1333 memory systems.

    I agree the 785G is a better balanced chipset than the 780G and G41 for multimedia.

    I wish Gary would have used an older benchmarking suite so I can compare the performance between current and systems 2-3 years old. I prefer PCMark2005 and 3DMark2005 since these are reliable indicators of performance. This is important to me because I try to make my purchasing decisions on the criteria of having double the performance for the same cost and power consumption.
  • 7Enigma - Thursday, August 6, 2009 - link

    Gary,

    Thanks for the article but could you keep in mind for future articles on non-gaming hardware (i.e. IG's, budget GPU's, etc.) to make sure the game description is in line with the actual article? I can tell they were just copied directly from a previous gaming article, so it's a bit silly to see, "We crank up all the details to max", only to see the data chart show 1024X768 with low settings.

    :)
  • AlB80 - Wednesday, August 5, 2009 - link

    DMI 10Gb/s each direction, full duplex
    aka
    4 lane PCIe 1.1

  • Shadowmaster625 - Wednesday, August 5, 2009 - link

    Since when have intel integrated graphics been in the same ballpark as the 7xx? Before today, every benchmark I saw AMD beat Intel by about 50-200% (Without overclocking or sideport crap.) Now all the sudden many of these benchmarks are showing an edge of only 20%, and this is comparing the 785G vs the G41. What is going on here? I think you need to do a more detailed review and comparison vs Intel's topline model, GMA 4500MHD(?) and nvidia 9300 as well.
  • TA152H - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    This could have been summed up in a simple paragraph, instead of page after page of nothing. Still, I guess you have to prove the points.

    It's pretty disappointing, really. The chipset doesn't represent a clear advantage over the 790GX, despite the author's best effort to distort facts and compare a overclocked 785 with a nominally clocked 790GX. It's always annoying when an author already has an idea of what he wants to present, and then finds way to do it. Better to go with an open mind and let readers make up their own mind.

    The same applies with the G41. Another lame attempt by the author to distort the article to make a preconceived point. Since you show the 790GX, shouldn't you show the G45? Guess not, it might make the pre-conceived purpose of the article less clear.

    AMD makes a crappy processor compared to Intel, not a pretty good one. Everything is relative. It's really a zero sum game. So, we have GREAT (Nehalem), VERY GOOD (Penryn), and PRETTY GOOD (AMD). Where's the bad? What's pretty good compared to? What's it better than. It's the worst of the three lines, even compared to Intel's last gen. In other words, AMD has the bad. Someone has to do it. Not everyone can be 99 percentile. Someone's got to be 1 percentile for the 99 percentile folk to exist. Not that Nehalem is 99, and AMD is 1. Probably more like 80 and 20. AMD processors are still usable, for sure, and I still think make good packages because of their superlative chipsets, but the processor on it's own merit has no reason to exist, except within this context and that of competition. It's worse than Nehalem at everything, by a lot, and is the same size. That's not pretty good, it's pretty bad.
  • bruce24 - Friday, August 7, 2009 - link

    re: "The same applies with the G41. Another lame attempt by the author to distort the article to make a preconceived point. Since you show the 790GX, shouldn't you show the G45? Guess not, it might make the pre-conceived purpose of the article less clear."


    I was also wondering why he would only show the G41. In the article he says "The direct price competitor", but if I go to newegg.com, I can find multiple G45 boards in the same price range as the 785G.


  • Spoelie - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Would just like to chime in on some test subjects that are left untouched

    *Is UVD decoding still limited to AVC profile L4.1 (the one used in bluray)? The competition (nvidia) fully supports profile L5.1, which ensures that they can accelerate *every* video. With ATi it's either hit or miss, there are videos out there that use it.

    *ATi has serious issues with their SATA implementation, mainly AHCI mode.. are they fixed in SB710? I'm thinking not. Refer to your colleagues at techreport..

    SB600: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13832/5">http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13832/5

    SB700: "We quite literally see more of the same in the SB700's Serial ATA controller. The port count here is up to six, but they're basically six of the same ports you get on the old SB600" -> http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14261/10">http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14261/10

    SB750: "Unfortunately, AMD's longstanding issues with AHCI Serial ATA controller configurations persist in the SB750, all but forcing users to run the south bridge in plain old IDE mode. That's not the end of the world, but IDE mode doesn't support Serial ATA perks like hot swapping and Native Command Queuing." -> benchmarks in following link are IDE mode -> http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15256/8">http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15256/8
  • cghebert - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    The comments in TR's 785g review can shed some light on your SB AHCI questions:

    Comment by Prototype:
    "I think it's a non-issue. The out-of-box Windows 7 and Vista AHCI drivers work just fine with the southbridge, it's just the vendor drivers from AMD (and bundled by the motherboard vendors) that cause subpar performance.

    Which you can avoid by, you know, just not installing them.

    It's not like they add any functionality you don't already have by using Microsoft's excellent driver. In my experience Microsoft's generic drivers tend to be more stable and less buggy than vendor drivers anyway, a result of the fact that hardware vendors couldn't write decent software to save their lives, not even Intel.

    The hidden issue is the CPU utilization of the USB drivers, really. Note how both SB710 boards use 4 times as much CPU time as the ICH7 USB driver.

    As far as ICH7 AHCI is concerned, Intel doesn't have support for AHCI in their ICH7 "Base" driver, but if the motherboard manufacturer exposes AHCI in the BIOS, Windows Vista and 7's generic AHCI driver by Microsoft can be used for the device. (And for Windows XP, the Intel AHCI driver's .inf can be modified to add the PCI product ID and loaded during the installation process.)"

    There is more information in the comments if you want to check into it further.
  • mmaenpaa - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    It seems that this feature is mostly forgotten. Even AMD/ATI is not talking too much about it. I do remember testing it maybe a year ago with X1250 chipset and there were too much problems (yeah, I did try to find a solution, but it propably would have taken more than 10 minutes, so I gave up :-).

    Now, just last week I tested with Gigabyte 780G mb and HD 4670 PCIE card and it simply worked. I had three monitors connected (XP PRO).

    I do believe this is quite a nice feature and if you are using ATI cards it is practically free.

    Markku
  • HollyDOL - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Hmm, no clue why, but despite what author says, both movie screenshots for Intel/AMD solutions look almost exactly same (difference being they are not the same frame). Is it just due to JPEG picture quality loss or the difference between AMD/Intel playback is practicaly uncomparable?
    Viewed on Eizo FlexScan panel, so there shouldn't be any quality reductions on my screen...
  • MrCommunistGen - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    I would have liked to have seen some SB700 (on the 780G) vs SB710 (on the 785G) benches on the USB/HD benchmarks.
  • Kibbles - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    On page 6, the 4th graph is a duplicate of the 3rd.
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Fixed, thanks.
  • MrCommunistGen - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    I was really curious about that section so I'm glad that I can actually view it. Thanks!
  • fic2 - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    I find the choice of a 10k RPM VelociRaptor odd for either HTPC or integrated graphic system. I have my doubts that it would be the HD choice of either user profile.
  • b15h09 - Friday, August 7, 2009 - link

    VelociRaptor because it eliminates a potential bottleneck. This isn't a real world system test.
  • Taft12 - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Yes, I would expect a WD Greenpower drive or one of those new slow-spinning Seagates.
  • Fox5 - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    I remember roadmaps putting the 880G launching this month, but we're just getting the 785G. The 880G seems to be the chipset worth waiting for. Virtualized 3d hardware? Yes please.
  • fzkl - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    A lot of us know that when it comes to an HTPC, Intel is the worst option of the lot. To make things fair, why isn't this a 3-way roundup with the Nvidia GeForce 9300?
  • rtallmansu - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Even more odd to me is why you would compare an Intel G41 with a ICH7 and not a G45 chipset with the newer ICH10. G41 buyers are not interested in any of these performance metrics, were as someone might want to know how the G45 compares for HTPC duties in HD playback.
  • Shaffan - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Such a pity you did not test the RAID performances : RAID5 in particular. I heard the integrated RAID5 of Intel chipset is much better than the one of AMD, but I can't find a decent comparative test about this !
  • flipmode - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    SB710 = no RAID 5
  • mybook4 - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Gary, you put in a lot of effort into this article, thank you! However, I found one part misleading.

    Most of the application benchmarks are dependent on only cpu, not gpu. It confused me that these benchmarks were in an article that compared 780G vs G41. I understand if you were trying to compare the platforms as a whole, but wouldn't that also constitute a component price match (price an amd 780g system with an equal priced G41 system then compare).

    PS. I am a little sick of people saying that anything under 60fps is unplayable. Most people that frequent this site play Crysis at under 40fps.
  • HelToupee - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    How's Linux driver support for video decoding coming along for AMD? Last I checked, it was supported in the closed drivers, but none of the players support it yet.

    Poor Linux support is a deal breaker for me (and probably 10's of other people ;) )
  • Finally - Wednesday, August 5, 2009 - link

    [quote]Poor Linux support is a deal breaker for me (and probably 10's of other people ;) [/quote]

    If I was Google, I would ask you:

    Did you mean "10 other people"?
  • sprockkets - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Same here. Buying a Zotac 9300 ITX board with an Intel chip. VDPAU ftw.
  • mczak - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    IMHO, the biggest drawback with G41 (and G43) isn't even mentioned - you lose two ram slots (some boards still have 4 but then you can equip all 4 only with single-sided ram, so useless). Hence this limits you for all practical purposes to 4GB (2x2GB) of ram. (The chipset could take 2 4GB modules but for that price you could probably buy 2 G45 boards with 8 2 GB modules...)
  • Spivonious - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Some other items...

    The G45 has the X4500HD, the G41 has the X4500. The G41 does not have hardware decoding for blu-ray movies.
  • flipmode - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Is that some kind of double negative? Maybe "fewer and fewer" or something? No biggie, it just caught my eye immediately :smile:
  • Sharles - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    The ICH7 chipset on my motherboard does have 1 PATA channel.
  • Viditor - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    Agreed...Gary, you need to correct your table at the index. ICH7 has 1 PATA (2 device) connetion.
  • iamezza - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    There are no graphs showing up on page 5
  • R3MF - Tuesday, August 4, 2009 - link

    AMD are making a lot of fuss about 785G/Tigris supporting their next generation Stream computing initiative (read: OpenCL), would you be able to ask them if they intend to provide this support to the 780G chipset too?

    This is important because the 780G will form the core of 2nd gen ultra-mobile platform previously known as Congo.

    I would be very grateful if you would ask this question.

    Thanks
  • R3MF - Wednesday, August 5, 2009 - link

    ^ bump ^
  • R3MF - Thursday, August 6, 2009 - link

    ^ bump ^
  • dragunover - Friday, August 7, 2009 - link

    Screw you and you bumps.

Log in

Don't have an account? Sign up now